Scottish singer-songwriter Paolo Nutini talked with QRO just after the release of his new album, Caustic Love, and just before playing two big NYC shows (9/22 at Terminal 5; 9/23 at Apollo Theatre). In the conversation, Paolo discussed Caustic Love, from track listing to all the places it was made (and all the people it was made with), trains, performing with his eyes closed, the moon on the water, and much more…
QRO: Caustic Love has grown into being one of my favorite albums of the year and one of the shining things about it is that it feels very original. Well done on making an album like that man.
Paolo Nutini: Why thank you. It was a lot of fun to make. There were so many different ways that the album could’ve sounded because of the time I spent on it, but it feels great that the album that’s been released are the current bunch of songs. I’m glad that people think it works. [laughs]
QRO: Something I’ve found to be very distinct about Caustic Love is that the track listing feels well thought out. Would you say that this was deliberate, the way the tracks flow into one another or a bit of a happy accident?
PN: It kind of was, yeah. I used a bit of a bank of samples that I had that I picked up on the way, and the best part about that is it helped me to combine the tones of songs more. Some of the songs already had a bit of a narrative, but it was great being able to utilize outside sounds as well with that. I think there is a distinct fact that I wanted it to feel like a complete album. More like a movie, or even a book in a way. So yeah, those bits and segues just bring everything together really.
There was actually more sounds that I wanted to have in there, [laughs] but looking back now I think there’s enough in the album. I very much like how natural the tones feel and sound, the outros of tracks especially.
QRO: One of the ones that sticks out a lot to me is the “Bus Talk Interlude”. It’s quite leftfield yet feels very fitting, what made you want to add that to the album?
PN: It was just something I had, actually I’ve had that for years believe it or not! Well before my first album, the interlude there and some bits from “Let Me Down Easy” were meant to be quite grander, but it was took a bit of whittling down to what get the tracks to where they are now. I had help with that from Rollo Armstrong, Dido’s brother. I worked in a couple of studios back then and he was at one and helped me through the track, but it never made my first record. So when it came to Caustic Love it felt more fitting bringing in that narrative.
And with mentioning Rollo, I certainly have to mention that one of the best parts about this album is how it’s caused me to work with a lot of very talented people. There’s been a lot more time for reflection and deciding on what to do because of that, it never felt like we were working on a clock. It’ll sound a bit out there to say it this way, but it never really felt like we were making an album until we got to the end of it. When you make albums they’re a lot of things that might not make sense in the process of making it, but it’s brilliant having other opinions and viewpoints to help you see things you probably wouldn’t have seen otherwise.
QRO: Well it definitely shows on the album that you were within some breathing room while making Caustic Love. You seem a lot more relaxed on this record.
PN: I think that’s the best way to put it, ‘breathing room’; it was essential to making this album happen. And again, the people that were involved are very important as well. People like Dani Castelar, who was essential to this album in so many ways. Leo Abrahams planted a lot of great ideas and sounds; I learned a lot from him as well. It was especially incredible being able to work in a lot of different studios as well and getting a feel for those rooms. We found ourselves in RAK Studio 1, which was a fantastic place to be in, one of the best studios in London.
Some of the tracks on the album were recorded in small rooms in Vienna, while others were recorded outside in communes. It’s just that this album helped change the way I view making records, it was just a great experience overall.
QRO: Well with that said, the experiences of making this album, do you feel that those experiences are essential to how the album turned out? Especially since you got to do a fair bit of traveling while making Caustic Love.
PN: Absolutely. Yeah, there were loads of aspects to those experiences that helped to make the album what it is, especially the visual aspect to the stories on the album. It’s funny, because one of the things I’ve been criticized for over the years is having my eyes closed while performing. It’ll sound silly but whenever I do that I kind of imagine the visuals while I’m singing, I’m going back to those places the songs were born in.
For example, one of the places that are very dear to me is Valencia, which is also where Dani is from. When I was in Valencia I got to spend a lot of time writing, and just thinking about things while being enamored by my surroundings. It helped me to be as creative as I could be really. There’s this thing I got into as well called the ‘Luna Valenciana’, which is this trick of the eye when the moon appears to be massive and resting on the water. The moon is obviously not resting on the water but the area you’re in makes your eye think that it is. It’s things like that, things that are very distinct about a place and time that I wanted to incorporate onto my album, and things like that opened my eyes to how significant specific places and moments can be. Walking around Barcelona for example, you just can’t help but feel enamored by the place. I’d walk around and just feel completely taken by the place. The real aim was to juxtapose things I was going through as much as possible.
I also got to go to Berlin as well. I didn’t record in Berlin but I did enjoy how different Berlin was to anywhere else I had been before. I never went to a place with the aim being the directive, but rather just having a place flow me as opposed to me trying to fuck with the flow. Just taking trains as much as possible, and walking and such, really taking a new place in.
QRO: When you travel, it really is the best being on a train, you certainly get to be in your headspace more.
PN: Yeah absolutely, I love that part about traveling by train as well.
QRO: You should try to use the trains when you’re in the U.S., going between states and such.
PN: I’d love to do that. I love taking the trains in New York, especially in the evening because there always seems to be somewhere to go and somewhere to be. The last time I was in New York I got to meet some really great people so I can’t wait to get back.
QRO: One of the things that I love about living in New York is that you can usually feel the build up leading up to a show, and that definitely was the case a couple months back when you played Webster Hall, bravo to you on that, man.
PN: [Laughs] Well, thank you. I really loved that show. We played some nice shows during that run, and it’s funny you said what you just did because someone said something similar to the show I did in LA as well. I remember playing the Troubadour and having someone’s hands right on my monitors, and that kind of intimacy… you just can’t ignore it can you? That was one of my favorite shows that I’ve ever done; that show. Seeing peoples eyes that close, it’s just impossible not to feed off that. I hope that energy translates more onto American audiences, it’s already been very surprising, especially with communication. It’s great to see people talking to one another about music, and in turn having those people responding to it. I think the new album helps a lot as well, since it has me being a lot more open than I have been in the past. I think Americans see through that quite easily, when you’re being open about yourself or not.
QRO: I think there’s some truth to that. Whenever I talk to bands from abroad I do try to stress that about American audiences, the importance of being true with them. In truth there really isn’t a formula to making it here, it’s just really a thing of being as open as you can with people. Another thing I think you have on your side is that there doesn’t feel as though there’s an overabundance to the kind of music that you’re making, so when it comes to Americans coming across your music I’d imagine there’d be a sense of surprise over anything else.
PN: I think that is quite a good thing, the surprise element. Whenever you surprise you can’t manipulate the response that follows, and with that it helps you to win over people who’d probably never find you to be good in the first place. [laughs] That whole way of it though doesn’t seem complicated to me, I think overall that’s the best part about music and bands. One of my favorite types of musicians are the real sort, but also musicians who can tell stories, and I suppose that’s where the connection to Americans happen.
[Laughs] Actually the stuff I’m listening to now is quite random. At the moment I’m into this guy called Bruce Haack, who made this album called The Electric Lucifer. It was labeled at the time ‘electronic music for kids’ back in the ‘60s/‘70s. You should check out this album some time, it’s such a great surprise to me, and just lights up my day. It’s very important to me that I come across albums like this because I feel it helps me to keep the live shows interesting. Whenever we play a show there’s always an element of, ‘How are we going to make this show different than the last?’, and that intensifies when you’re on an actual tour. An album like this just helps me to diversify my taste, and by doing that it just helps me to think of things differently and expansively as well. I also love that with this new album it’s helped me to rethink the old songs and give them a bit more atmosphere and gravity. It’s just a lot of fun overall.
QRO: Wow, well that has to be a fantastic thing to experience, the reactions to how the songs have changed with the live show.
PN: Yeah, I’d say that it was almost an essential thing to do as well. The way I play now is different to how I played before. Before it was much more centered on me and there was a bit of romanticism towards that I suppose, but now everything is more expansive and the band element is felt much more. Sometimes I’ll have played a song a certain way and then one of my band mates will play it another way and give the song a different identity that I end up falling in love with.
QRO: When it comes to returning to the music world, after being away from it for quite some time, how do you feel you fit in the music world now and how does it look through your eyes being back. Quite a bit has changed over the years.
PN: Honestly, I’m just trying to get on making music. The business side to it… it’s just not me, really. It’s hard to nail down what to say on that but for me I just want to play my music. It’s just… what can you do, really? Things change, places change, people change, and that aspect to music, the business side, it just always felt… I don’t know. Is there an alternative way to feel about it? I mean you put out an album, it goes through this ‘thing’ that feels like a machine of being sold, you tour, and then it dies down and it’s just weird to go on and on with it. You don’t want to think about that aspect of it that much; you just really have to see music as opportunities as obligations. When it comes to music I just want to do the things I want to do and do them well.
QRO: I suppose with the business aspect I’m curious about what you think about the newer bands around you, the new workers, the way festivals have changed, the way people take music in, I mean when you boil it down it becomes difficult to do so because so much has changed over the years. Does any of it feel relatively new to you?
PN: There are new avenues and areas of exposure, but I suppose to me it’s just other ways for people to view it as too much. I don’t think all of those things are necessarily pillars to what music is and how music works. Music can still not be a priority to some people out there, especially in this age of convenience and to me it’s important to give people something that doesn’t feel disposable, something that has feeling and a story. I don’t want my music to feel like a product, and I think they’re some musicians out there who don’t mind it if their music is that. So when it comes to the music business, my mind is very much geared on just playing my songs and playing them well, and making sure that people can feel something. I’m not trying to take over the world; I just want to play to people who want to hear me play. [laughs]
