Until the Ribbon Breaks

While on tour with London Grammar, Until The Ribbon Breaks sat down for a long talk with QRO....
Until the Ribbon Breaks : Q&A

Until the Ribbon Breaks : Q&A

While on tour with London Grammar, Until The Ribbon Breaks sat down for a long talk with QRO. In the extensive interview, Pete Lawrie-Winfield (lead vocals, keys, programming, percussion, brass and guitar), James Gordon (keys, percussion, programming, backing vocals, bass) and Elliot Wall (drums, programming, backing vocals) discussed themselves in the context of their own art, music as creative vs. as a career, saying “no,” not limiting themselves to a genre, being from Cardiff (sort of), really bring from L.A., being caught in clothes they wouldn’t wear, going fucking nuts, even the origin of their name, and much more…

 

 

QRO: I know that many people outside of Britain might not know of Cardiff. What was it like starting out there and do you feel like there was an audience available for the kind of music you guys were making?

Pete Lawrie-Winfield: Only two of us are from Cardiff; James is from England. This question tends to be difficult because… I love Cardiff. Cardiff represents friends and family for me. That being said, when it comes to music, there’s only one arena in Cardiff and then nowhere else for you to play really.

QRO: Really?

Elliot Wall: Well there is the Welsh Club isn’t there?

PLW: But how much is that?

James Gordon: I suppose five or six hundred isn’t it?

PLW: Ok so you’re either the Kings of Leon that comes in every two years that causes mayhem in the city or…

QRO: You’re either the next NME cover band packing out a room before your first album?

PLW: [laughs] Exactly! So it’s difficult to form much of a scene and there’s not really an area in Cardiff that’s full on about music.

EW: Well, there kind of was when we were growing up. When we’d skateboard and hangout with others, I remember everyone we’d talk to was in a band. But it was quite of a ska/punk scene mostly.

PLW: Yeah, London has always been more of the place for us to perform. It’s not a thing of slating Cardiff; it’s more of just having to be in the epic centre of the industry really. We live in Los Angeles now.

It’s been interesting because we didn’t initially set out to start a band.

QRO: Has it shocked you seeing so many Brits in a bright/colourful place like L.A.?

EW: We actually don’t know any British people there. [laughs]

PLW: I know two maybe?

JG: We do see a lot of Brits coming through, especially people in music.

EW: It’s a bit cliché, but it is an alluring place to be because of how different it is from the UK.

QRO: So where was the first place you guys performed outside of Cardiff and what was that like?

EW: That’s the weird thing actually. We performed once in Britain, but never in Wales. It’s strange, see we technically formed in Wales, but we really have raised it in L.A.

PLW: It’s been interesting because we didn’t initially set out to start a band. It started as a studio project and the band has been formulating and growing from that project that involves all of us. But, from what it is now, a three-piece band… it’s been an evolving thing; I guess you can say we did it backwards.

Until The Ribbon Breaks’ video for “Pressure”:

 

QRO: What made you guys think of the project as a band and what made you want to take the project further?

PLW: Well I never even thought of it as a band really, the way I was thinking about it at the time was that, ‘I want to make something I can be proud of.’ I was just dropped from a label, I had no management, I was just about to get dropped from other deals and… for me it was very much a realization of, ‘Wow, there’s nothing in the world that I can say that I’m proud of, I want to have something I can make and be proud to have my name on it.’ Something that’s representative of how I felt about music. So, I needed to make something quickly, at least that’s how it felt. And as that began the band began to form and it just going further and further.

QRO: Wow, well I have to say, I’ve interviewed bands for years but this has to be the first time I’ve heard an artist describe themselves in the context of their own art.

PLW: What do you mean, exactly?

QRO: I feel like a lot of musicians kind of just project their creative output without thinking about how they feel about it. It’s like how you said, ‘I needed to make something I could be proud about.’ It’s just not the type of thing you hear often. That sounded as though you’re very aware of yourself and your art and it’s quite a brilliant thing to hear.

JG: I agree with you about that. His background is very rich songwriting and he’s able to bring this fresh experience to music, but I think it’s so rare to have acts that are ‘coming up the system’ that have this well grounded perspective and integrity. I feel that with most newer acts, they end up focusing on the wrong things, and who knows maybe that works for them in terms of a project, or a product, or maybe just a concept? But it feels great being part of a project that has so much creative integrity embedded in it.

Wow, there’s nothing in the world that I can say that I’m proud of, I want to have something I can make and be proud to have my name on it.

QRO: That’s quite a brilliant thing to hear, especially because I feel like now more than ever there’s a bit of a divide between people who view music as a creative expression and people who solely view it as a career. It’s nice to hear you can come from a very integral place, a need to create.

PLW: Yeah, what’s been really exciting is that it feels like I can just make music that I like and that I can have people involved who like it too. It feels like you can stop being naïve, listen to your gut, and not fall into the trap of making the art secondary to the ‘product’ and that’s what happens constantly, as soon as you do that you’re fucked. So with this project we’re constantly putting every little thing under a microscope and asking ourselves, ‘Is this what Until The Ribbon Breaks is?’ And sometimes you do have to weigh the balance of that of compromise. I mean, sometimes compromise is unavoidable and they’re bands from a different time who… it’s hard to put into words, but a good example is Radiohead. Like, Radiohead have to know that if it wasn’t for “Creep” they wouldn’t have had the freedom to make an album like King of Limbs (QRO review), because they still wouldn’t be a band you know?

QRO: It’s interesting you say that because people I’ve talked to who have worked with Radiohead have always expressed how secretive and… I don’t want to say ‘overbearing’, but the group is very aware of every little thing that is projected about their image and words. It’s very much, what you see of Radiohead is exactly what Radiohead wants you to see. Whether it be a photo-shoot or an interview.

PLW: Yeah, and you can see that from everything they do. They’ve had the same person who’s done the artwork for them for the last twenty years. And with that and their need to project what they want, it’s made it so that when you see/hear something of there’s you know it’s Radiohead right away.

It’ll sound pretentious, but there’s nothing worst than compromising your art.

QRO: It’s interesting because I love the way Alex [band’s publicist] told me about you guys. We have this interesting relationship where she’ll send me stuff on newer acts and at first not tell me much because she knows that I’ll judge solely on the music. So with you guys she just gave me the name/a track and I then looked you guys up myself and saw this wealth of visuals and stuff. But the best part about it was that it all felt cohesive to what the band is.

PLW: Yeah, well there is so much… ugh, I hate this word, but there is so much “content” that it has this mindset that’s plagued the music industry in a way.

EW: Yeah, it’s had this weird effect where it not only feels oversaturated to your audience, but for us as well! To do this, to do this, and then this version of this and that, and it’s almost like, ‘Hold on, I’ve been sat here for three weeks and I haven’t thought about music?’

QRO: I’d imagine with a lifestyle like that, almost like being on rails, that you can almost feel lost in a way.

PLW: Yeah totally! You have to keep on referring to what you first wanted the project to be. You have to go, ‘Whoa whoa whoa! What is it that we’re doing here exactly?’ For example, and I don’t mind saying any of these things: yesterday we saw a photo that we had done from a shoot, and the photo was in print. We saw the photo, and it’s nobody’s fault but our own, but the clothing we were in weren’t clothes we liked or clothes we’d probably even wear.

JG: But because of it being content it was a thing we agreed on doing.

PLW: And yeah, we always aim to be nice people to work with, we never want to be divas. But then the photos come back, and you see how we’re misrepresented and… it’ll sound pretentious, but there’s nothing worst than compromising your art, and it was quite a lesson in that for us because we are still a relatively new band. But experiences like this reminds us that if you ever compromise your art then there’s no way it’ll really connect with people.

QRO: Absolutely. I’d imagine that there’d be a reverse to that as well. Like if it were to connect with people then you did it under false pretenses.

PLW: And then you’re really fucked! [laughs] Then you’ll have to wear those clothes every day!

Until The Ribbon Breaks’ video for “Romeo”:

QRO: Honestly, I didn’t intend to be stuck on how you approached this project but it really is a brilliant thing to see. I mean, you’ve worked in publishing and the business side and have seen just how little to no integrity you can have in this business, and it’s just a rare thing to hear a new band that’s so self-aware to that, as well as what it is that you want to do as a band.

PLW: And how mental is that? [laughs]

QRO: Yeah, and here we are talking about it, but it’s just mental how no one really thinks about whether or not they actually like the music they’re making/performing.

PLW: Yeah it’s shocking to us as well. We’ve worked with many different musicians and producers and stuff like that and it’s just a weird thing to work on music, present it to an artist and have an artist say no. When an artist says no to you, that’s the artist you don’t want to work with.

QRO: I know exactly what you mean. Because at that point “no” is on a whim as opposed to being a well-thought out response.

PLW: Yeah, and then you’re terrified because you don’t want to lose a deal, and you’re just scrambling to make someone happy. There is a right way to say “no,” and London Grammar are a great example of that. They say “no” to certain things and it makes them who they are. When they say “no,” it directly has to do with how they’re being represented and they do it as a collective rather then utilizing their egos. It reminded us how powerful the word “no” can be.

QRO: Especially when you’re touring your first album, so many people would feel as though “no” is a bit of a luxury to use.

PLW: Yeah, exactly!

There is a right way to say “no.”

QRO: That makes me wonder actually, when it comes to the remixes that you guys have done; how much depth would you say that you’ll have with the artist your remixing for? Do you aim to put an Until The Ribbon Breaks spin on it?

PLW: We’ve been really lucky with that actually. We kind of have the attitude that, ‘We love your voice and artistry, but by asking us to re-imagine your song within the context of our world,’ our world being Until The Ribbon Breaks. It’s a weird situation at times because sometimes people don’t know what exactly to expect from us despite hearing our music, but we do always put a 100% of ourselves into everything that we do.

QRO: And how could you not really? Especially when it comes to remixing. I mean, you’re given all these pieces of a song to tinker with and I’d imagine it being an impossible thing to not have the end product sound like your band.

PLW: I think there’s a practical answer to that actually. We’ll only ever take the vocal. We never take the chord progression, solely the vocals and the tempo. We do that because we don’t like the idea of being adhered to what was done before and I think that’s served us pretty well surprisingly.

QRO: It’s funny you say that because my favorite one was actually the Sam Smith remix you guys did (of “Nirvana”). Which is funny because he’s on the cover of Rolling Stone now.

PLW: Whoa really?

QRO: Yep.

JG: Wow, that’s mental isn’t it?

QRO: It’s mental for sure, [laughs] I’ve known him for years and it’s just mental that so many people would see him now and think of him as just another pop star but just two years ago he was just a barman.

PLW: I know exactly what you mean. We’re mates with him as well and love him, and it’s amazing that he plays that remix of ours live, it’s been amazing seeing that. But that rise to the top, especially with someone like Lorde as well, because we’ve toured with her too, and yeah that ascension to the top… it’s just bloody terrifying isn’t it? I mean wow, and in his head he’s probably still a barman you know? There’s no way your brain can go, ‘Oh yeah, I’m a rock star now!’

QRO: I remember I saw Louis C.K. in the VIP area of a show I was at once, and he wasn’t trying to but because of who he is he was kind of holding court in the room. And he said something that’s really stuck with me over the years, he said that success isn’t the kind of thing you achieve when you’re ready for it, so once it finally gets to you it’s almost like, ‘oh… success?’ He was saying it’s already passed you, like you were ready for it two years ago and now it’s here.

PLW: [laughs] Yeah, exactly! And something like that really does re-evaluate your idea of what success is. You look at someone like Beck or Nine Inch Nails for example, people who just do what they do and do what they do, and eventually people latch on. Acts like that weren’t instant in getting people to love them, sometimes it took them until their third or fourth album for loads of people to grasp onto to what they’re about.

There’s no way your brain can go, ‘Oh yeah, I’m a rock star now!’

QRO: It’s interesting you say that because I think that could even be applied to London Grammar and how they say “no.” Sure, they got popular off of their debut but when you listen to them/see them live you can just see how much work went into honing both the music and presentation of their music. And with Beck and NIN you can imagine them saying “no” to loads of stuff actually.

PLW: Yeah exactly! I’d imagine that getting Trent Reznor to say “yes” to something has got to be the sole job of one person due to the size of the task.

QRO: Want to know something that’s mental actually? I remember when it came to promoting their live tour (NIN) they put a production video online of the behind the scenes work for the tour. It was this massive creative team and Trent was the creative director, so these people were pretty much working for him. In the video, and I’m sure it’s still up now, he’s openly calling things shit, bad, awful, and just being a hard-ass and saying “no” to loads of stuff… but this is on the official NIN page.

[whole band laughs]

PLW: That’s amazing. But that’s a firm example of how much he cares about NIN and the brand of it.

EW: That reminds me of that Metallica documentary [Some Kind of Monster] where they’re all going nuts on one another!

PLW: Imagine trying to get Thom Yorke to say yes? And so the fuck should it be!

JG: Yeah, it’s an example of avoiding that saturation we were talking about. With acts like that, you’re always reminded how it’s about the music over anything else really.

Until The Ribbon Breaks’ video for “Revolution Indifference”:

 

QRO: I love the fact that Until The Ribbon Breaks doesn’t adhere itself to one genre. It’s quite a maelstrom of tones and sounds. I’m just curious as to how deliberate it was to do that and how it all came together?

PLW: Well, that actually is the perfect question to sum up the band actually. It’s one of the first questions I was ever asked about the band, and it was a good friend of ours who asked it. He asked us that and my answer to him will have to be the same answer to you, and it’s that the whole point of the project is that it’s supposed to feel like a cassette mixtape or playlist that you give to someone for them to fall in love with. I wanted it to feel like, ‘Okay you’re now listening to Beach Boys but then you’re onto R.E.M., and then you’re onto Cypress Hill, and De La Soul.’ It’s almost as though the specific genre didn’t matter because you were listening to the music that you loved.

I said that to him and he said, “Oh yeah I used to do that with my cassette tapes, I used to listen to them until the ribbon broke,” and it was like, ‘Whoa… you just gave us the name.’ And for us, that’s the whole point of the project. The fact you can’t pinpoint our music in a specific genre is why we’re called what we’re called.

QRO: What’s striking about that answer to me is how so many acts probably feel that way about music, and would even want to make music in that manner, but would never be brave enough to say it. To incorporate so many tones and styles really challenges the listener.

PLW: Well it was refreshing for us really, the way you asked that so elegantly. We’re used to people kind of starring at us and just go, ‘Okay so… what genre are you?’ and it’s a mental thing to be asked so bluntly.

Well, that actually is the perfect question to sum up the band actually.

QRO: [laughs] I know what you mean. It’s a thing about journalism that bothers me, the removal of the human aspect. There’s different schools of thought to it where some people are thought to ask two soft questions followed by a hard question out of nowhere, and to me I know that and think, ‘Yeah but… how’s the person you’re interviewing not supposed to then hate you?’

EW: Yeah, exactly! It’s just ridiculous.

QRO: Well now with that said about how the project formed, the way it was a bit of a brainchild idea, I’m curious to know how these two got involved. Did you have similar feelings towards music that were in sync with your ideals?

JG: Yeah, absolutely. I started working on music with him, and the process of that has only evolved in a great way where we just share things, and bring in ideas. It was really refreshing because it was almost a new way of doing things for me, being able to be in an environment without rules or a set way of doing things.

QRO: And lastly, with the music being what it is it makes me wonder: How do you feel you want the live show go and is there a desire to have the live show mirror the ‘content’ at some point?

PLW: I think that James and Elliot should answer that, because if it wasn’t for them… I never rally pushed for the live show to be as big a part of this then it is. I come from the world of music in rooms, sounds, the type of music you listen to in headphones while starring out of a window, that’s always been my thing. I never even really went to shows much, but both James and Elliot worked so hard at crafting the live show that it’s become such a big part of the project. And now, I’m almost gone that way as well.

EW: I remember at the start of rehearsals I used to hit cymbals spontaneously and Pete would go, ‘Well, wait, don’t do that because that’s not how it sounds on the record.’ [laughs] Like deviating off the album, but now he says…

PLW: GO FUCKING NUTS!

EW: I think eventually, and me and James have talked about this a lot, we really want to go further with the lighting. We were talking about… like lighting is such a big part of a live show.

There’s so many things you can do that it just becomes a silly thing to go out there with just regular lights.

QRO: Absolutely, lighting conveys emotion!

EW: Exactly! We have this lighting guy who’s our friend and we were talking about it with him, and we have this lighting rig that we could probably operate ourselves. Like, we could run it ourselves; we just want to learn more about it. But I’m really excited to get that opportunity.

JG: I see the tech of the live show being a kind of limitless thing to aim for. There’s a place that we haven’t gone to yet, mostly because of budget and the space you get with being an opening band. But when we do our own tour, I’d love for us to find a way to incorporate projections and film more to our show somehow. I’m always thinking about what the live show could be, and where we can bring it. Something I’ve been thinking about is how when Poliça toured they had this screen right in front of them and a mixture of LEDs… there’s just so much possibilities when it comes to playing live.

EW: Exactly! There’s so many things you can do that it just becomes a silly thing to go out there with just regular lights.

PLW: It’s tough for us because a part of me wants to play as big of shows as possible, but there’s already a part of me that wants to make concept albums. [laughs] There’s a part of me that’s already thinking about double albums, and just making weird shit. [laughs]

QRO: [laughs] What a brave thing to say in an interview.

PLW: Yeah exactly, [laughs] but first I want to engage as many people as possible before we weird them out. But yeah, there’s just so many different ways things can go weird and expand from here. Kind of abstract, and yeah we just have a lot of ideas, but that’s only a good thing in the end.

 

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